Dylan Ris (00:01.772)
Welcome to Personality Crisis. I am Dylan Riss, your host for this episode. We are thrilled to be welcoming back to the show from the great state of Wyoming, Mr. Gary Trawner. this is Gary's return appearance, but it's my first chance as a host of the show to get to interview him. So welcome, Gary.

Gary Trauner (00:12.76)
Yeah.

Gary Trauner (00:21.964)
Thanks, Dylan. Really a really a pleasure to be here and nice to meet you.

Dylan Ris (00:25.654)
Yes. you know, Gary is no stranger to electoral politics. He has been a candidate multiple times for high office, House and Senate in the state of Wyoming, which because he's got a little D next to his name was was made it a little bit tricky, but he he's got a lot of insight as we approach the hundred di day mark until the fall elections.

Gary is is a veteran, Democratic politician. What are you what are you thinking as you gaze out on the electoral landscape?

Gary Trauner (01:05.184)
You know, I think there's opportunity. I do worry that we don't blow the opportunity that we have in front of us to to, you know, make some changes. so I

Things are pointing in the right direction, but I don't think they're as strong as they could be. And I don't think they're strong enough yet to kind of rest on our laurels in a sense. you know, the last a hundred days are when people start paying attention.

Dylan Ris (01:26.744)
Where do you think

Yeah. Where do you think that Democrats are outperforming what we could hope for and where do you think that they should be doing better than they are?

Gary Trauner (01:41.593)
That's pretty broad question. You know, I mean, we've outperformed in almost every special election since the last election cycle in 2026 and 2024. So we're doing relatively well. Polling, you know, I just noticed that in Senate polling we're up in a whole bunch of states. I'm just gonna look over, but Iowa, Georgia, North Carolina, Ohio, Tel Rico, and Texas, even Jackson and Maine just getting in the race. Looks like the latest poll I saw was.

Within the margin of error, but he's up by three points, like 49, 46 over Collins. So you know, those are all really, really good signs. I think the generic Democratic House ballots looking really good. but again, most people don't pay attention until it gets really close to election time. You know, I went door to door in my campaigns, and I can tell you this is a horrible stat to quote, but I'm, you know, this and it's non-statistical, it's just my experience.

But like 90% of people have no clue. They don't really pay attention and they only start focusing when it gets really close. So the question is, you know, how do we bolster ourselves going into the final stretch? And how do we how do we deal with the breakthrough issues? You know, the issues that really will will make regular people in their everyday lives pay attention. And that's a challenge, right? You don't know what those are going to be.

Dylan Ris (03:05.067)
Well, you know, I think there's been some debate among political consultants or people who are very tuned in about what those issues are. Are they local issues? Are they national issues? I think for a long time it was sort of assumed, especially for Democrats in more rural, traditionally red states, just focus on the local issues and maybe you can you know, break through on those. But I think that a combo of

Trump's cult of personality and also just the internet, you know, nationalizing everything. Maybe all politics isn't as local as they once said. What what are your thoughts on that?

Gary Trauner (03:43.585)
Yeah, you know, I think to your point, though. It it's a bit of a combo, right? I mean, you know, Trump is just diving in the poles, right? I mean, it's just we've never had a president like him, right? And hopefully we never will again. my view, and I keep pounding this in in my writings and stuff, it's it's a combination of meta, it's the corruption stupid, you know, back in the it's the economy stupid days of.

Bill Clinton, right? It's like it's the corruption stupid, but it's so but it's it's taking that major corruption on a federal level, on a meta level, and connecting it to the local issues that have direct impact on people. you know, one of my I'm convinced that people vote on what they perceive directly impacts them in their lives. Right. Now, you know, we always Democrats have a way of saying, well, they're vote people are voting against their best interest. But the truth is

I don't think that's the way it is. People think they're voting in their best interests. It's just that they've been convinced that culture war issues and trans people and and little brown people scurrying across the border in immigration are it's in their best interest to vote against that. And they put the economic and other issues aside because they've been sort of told that this is what they should be concerned about, right? So it's it's a matter of.

How do we convince them that other things are in their direct interest that have direct impact? so it's a combination. It's like taking the corruption. Asof's doing a great job on this. He's talking about corruption, but then he's directly, you know, connecting it to the cost of healthcare, the cost of grocery, the cost of you know, of gas, you know, things in his state in Georgia. So not easy, but I think it's the way to go.

Dylan Ris (05:36.35)
One thing that you that I've observed a lot is among these sort of low information voters who are gonna make their decision, you know, the week before the election, one thing that always pulls very well with them is term limits for politicians. you know, this this concept that everybody in Washington or state government is, you know, sort of getting fat on the on the backs of the people, and they're being left behind. So I I I

You know, I I can see how that how corruption ties to that. The thing that I personally worry about is that people, low information people are aware that Trump is this way, but they just assume that everyone is this way and it's just more public with Trump. and so you say, you know, Trump's taking Qatari bribe jets and running crypto scams. Well, you know, I'm sure the Democrats are too. They just haven't, you know, been outed or whatever. And and I fear that sometimes if people just

project that bad behavior onto the other side as well.

Gary Trauner (06:39.122)
I I think people pretty much do. And I think that's been a tactic of Republicans for a long time, right? Is to muddy the waters, right? Flood the zone, you know, Bannons flood the zone type of thing. But I think there are breakthrough issues on corruption. you know, the East Wing of the White House, right? The Qatari jet. you know, even stuff as small as the reflecting pool, right? Which

Dylan Ris (06:49.73)
Yeah.

Gary Trauner (07:05.192)
you know, $14 million or $15 million, whatever it was on a no-bid contracts contract is irrelevant in the scheme of a $7.8 trillion federal budget. But people get it, right? And and I think those are the types of issues where you can point and say, look, you know, we took this Qatari jet, we're spending a billion dollars on the Qatari jet. It's not even secure, right? And that billion dollars means that we you can't get healthcare, affordable healthcare coverage.

Dylan Ris (07:18.349)
Yeah.

Gary Trauner (07:34.603)
Or you know what, your gas prices are higher than they should be. However, you make the connection. I I think I think we try to avoid the all sides do it argument because then we're playing defense. Right. I'm I'm a sports guy. And you know, some other folks that are sitting and listening on this podcast probably know this about me, but I've always I've always looked at it as you want to play with a home field advantage.

Dylan Ris (07:53.484)
Mm-hmm.

Gary Trauner (08:00.305)
And in sports, teams that have the home field win way more than they lose. And then when you're playing away games, you lose more than you win. so the question is, what's a home game look like in politics? And to me, that means you're talking about the issues you want to talk about, the issues that you think matter to people, and you're not defending yourself against other things. So in terms of your all sides are corrupt view, it may be out there. I'm not so sure it helps us to bring that up.

And to try to defend it as strongly as as some others might.

Dylan Ris (08:33.281)
Let me I I think on the issues, there's no doubt the Democrats are get to play offense on a lot of issues, mainly because, you know, Trump has sort of inflicted upon himself and his party. But when we talk about, you know, the home field advantage, one thing that stands out in this Senate cycle is how many Republicans are on their home turf. You know, we're talking about states that have been red for a while, Ohio.

Iowa, Texas, Alaska, in addition to, you know, Maine, which is mostly a blue state, North Carolina, which seems legitimately purple. My question to you, you know, you have run for office in, you know, just about the reddish state in terms of how they vote for president. But my question is this: so much of of what we see from Democratic candidates, including what like consultants from Washington are telling them to do, is to like downplay the party brand.

And to focus on themselves as individual. Is that needlessly defensive and like apologizing for oneself? Should Democrats actually embrace their brand more? You think about like the corporate advertising world, who who succeeds hiding from what they are? It's it's it's it's not very common. So what what are your insights on that as a place that you know where just being a Democrat sometimes means you have to be defensive about it?

Gary Trauner (09:59.327)
Yeah, that's a great question. By the way, Wyoming is absolutely the reddest state in the country by by voter registration party differential. So it was a challenge. And just on a side note, I think the way to overcome those challenges in in deep red states is to get in front of people, right? you know, for me it was door to door. but however you do that in a personal way, you know, I couldn't

Dylan Ris (10:03.66)
Yeah.

Dylan Ris (10:07.884)
Mm-hmm.

Gary Trauner (10:25.878)
meet every single person in Wyoming. I think if I did, I I would have won. I mean, my first race was one of the closest, probably maybe I think the closest house race in the country in that cycle. you know, I lost by 0.3 or 4%. So, you know, letting people know who you are makes a big difference. But to your question, I never downplayed my party affiliation. and I think one of the problems that Democrats historically have had is their

I don't know if unwillingness is the right word, but their tepidness at defending their values and their views. You know, and Obamacare was a great example. I mean, I I, you know, Dems passed Obamacare by a single vote, basically. and then they didn't really step up and defend it on a regular, consistent basis, with some pretty simple ways to do it. Like, look, I just want everyone in this country to have basic quality, affordable health care. End of story.

That's it. That's what we're trying to do. and and I think, you know, it was it's been a problem. And I think we have a collective issue of being a little wimpy when it comes to standing up for what we believe in. Now, I do think there are ways to talk about issues. You know, I've mentioned this before, but my first time I ran, I know it's crazy, but wolves, reintroduction of wolves in

Northwest Corner, Yellowstone, et cetera, was a huge issue because we're an ag state, ranchers. Ranchers don't like wolves. You know, they exterminated them once. and so, you know, how do you talk about that issue, right? If you feel like it's a good thing to do. from my perspective, the way I talked about it, it wasn't like I'm a tree hugger and and you know, we need wolves roaming all over the place. I made it kind of a state's right issue, states' rights issue. My view was.

Dylan Ris (11:57.742)
Yeah.

Gary Trauner (12:17.036)
Look, we don't want wolves roaming down the main streets of Casper and Riverton and Cheyenne and Laramie. But if we don't do it right, the feds are going to come in and tell us how to do it. And we in Wyoming don't want the feds telling us what what to do in our lives. So let's do it right because otherwise it's not going to work for us. Right. So you make it kind of a different issue. There's ways to frame messages without being hypocritical or without giving up on what you truly believe in. but at the end of the day.

Look, we believe in I think our our policy issues are popular, right? so why shy away from them? Whether it's healthcare or education, or inequality. I mean, I think, you know, my view is climate change is the existential issue for the world, but inequality is the existential issue for our country, gross inequality. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about corporatism and taxes and and all those types of things and own them.

Dylan Ris (13:15.415)
Well, your tactic with the wolves though also di it seems like that is some localization as well, right? Because I think in the Mountain West, the West generally, but especially rural Mountain West, you know, states' rights independence keeping certain federal agencies out, you know, Bureau of Land Management out or whatever is is a really s you know, salient local issue. so, you know, I I it it seems that

that you couldn't fully run on like a a national platform of, say, you know, healthcare and progressive taxation, right? There's gotta be that local flair.

Gary Trauner (13:53.517)
Well, I I think I think you can absolutely run on those issues, but it's also important for people in your district, where whether it's a statewide district or whether it's a house district or whatever, to know that you you know what's going on in their lives on a local level, right? I mean, you know, I'm gonna bring up Mangdani because he's I think he's proving the point, although his his latest steps with Israel were probably unnecessary, but that's a whole nother story. But

He, you know, he does small things like he took a some f soccer fields in Brooklyn. I don't know if you saw this, Dylan, and he opened them up to being open 24-7 with lights, right? And it's incredible how many people stepped up and were playing soccer at three in the morning with their local clubs and their local teams because they work during the day, right? And they don't have the time to do it. And he's just he, you know, people are recognizing that he.

Dylan Ris (14:34.078)
Did see that. Did see that, yeah.

Gary Trauner (14:52.428)
knows what they're going through in their lives and he's trying to do the things that matter to them, even if it's such a small thing like that. And so I think it's really important for candidates to know their districts, right? And to speak to their districts. But they can speak to them in certain ways. And you know, I think wolves were one of those issues. Clean air and clean water, another kind of big environmental issue in Wyoming. you know, my approach to that was

Dylan Ris (15:04.909)
Yeah.

Gary Trauner (15:20.96)
Look, if if you want to hunt, right? Hunting's huge in Wyoming, right? You know, parent, you know, dads take their kids. I mean, it's like a rite of passage. So if you want to take your kids out and have healthy game herds, you need clean air and you need clean water. End of story. Right? So let's take care of our environment so that we can do the things we love to do here. Right. So you're taking a national issue and you're localizing.

Dylan Ris (15:43.96)
Well, one thing that I I think Mom Dani has really impressed a lot of people that that not only was he a great campaigner and communicator, but that he's really figured out a way to, you know, effect change almost from the moment he got into office. Now, one thing about him, of course, is he's in an executive role and he he ha has that he's figured out what powers the mayor has. I will give even though I don't like how he does this at all, but Donald Trump

Gary Trauner (16:03.147)
Yeah.

Dylan Ris (16:12.299)
I will give him credit that he has he has spent time thinking about what can I do as an executive, what levers can I pull? Now a lot of these are like legally and and and constitutionally questionable, but he's i and he's also taking advantage of of a deadbeat Congress that can't do anything. But this this to pivot to the Congress, you know, one one issue that that that we have, and I'd I'd I'd be curious about what you think, you know, congressional Democrats

have been doing and what they can be doing, but but a huge problem w with with all that is that they aren't executives. They they have to either have majority votes or supermajority votes, you know, in in the Senate. And it just seems so hopelessly stagnant. And so my question to you is one, what do you think of how Democrats are acting right now in the minority? Should they be doing something more? What can they be doing more? And two

what should they do if all these Senate races and and and house races fall as we we hope and they get majorities, but they're not gonna be massive majorities. Wha what what what are your thoughts on the present and and future of congressional Democrat?

Gary Trauner (17:23.668)
Yeah, good question. I want to step back to Mamdani real quick and just say there's one other thing that he's brought, which I do think makes a difference. And it's he clearly loves his job, he loves his city, and he's bringing joy to doing what he does. And people see that. And you know, you don't have to be a stone-faced politician to get ahead. And if you can really show that you care.

Dylan Ris (17:48.205)
Mm-hmm.

Gary Trauner (17:52.283)
that makes a difference. So that's just a little side note. but to your point, you know, I've been very critical of the Schumers and Jeffries of the world, you know, and the way I've looked at it, I've sort of said we've now got institutionalists, and we've got sort of, you know, muckrakers is the way I'll put it, right? You know, people that really want to get into the nitty-gritty in the dirt and make a difference in a quick way. and I still think that the institutionalists

Dylan Ris (17:54.466)
Yeah.

Gary Trauner (18:21.656)
are trying to they're they're happy enough just trying to ride on the tr anti-Trump wave. and and that's strong. There's no doubt about it. I just don't think it's enough, number one. And number two, it's not the opportunity, it's not seizing the day. It's not taking chance, you know, chances with the opportunity. And look, my view, half our country, maybe more, is desperate.

Dylan Ris (18:29.527)
Mm-hmm.

Gary Trauner (18:51.01)
They're struggling. It's the system is not working for them. And they are looking for people that are willing to really step up and do some maybe out-of-the-box things and do them quickly. Right. Now, you know, you're right, Congress is not an executive branch, so they don't have the ability to really kind of run things per se. I think Dems need to come up with some really interesting ideas and maybe out of the box.

And vote on them right away, right? I mean, there was the con you know, Newton came up with the contract with America years ago, right? It made a difference in that election in a big way. It was first time the House flipped in like 40 years or whatever it was, right? we don't necessarily need a contract with America, but we need some ideas that will stick and hold and that we will act on immediately. And I do think that a bunch of those can relate to corruption, right? Taking votes on

Dylan Ris (19:45.812)
Mm-hmm.

Gary Trauner (19:48.107)
everything from whether people in Congress and the president can trade stocks, trade crypto, whatever the case may be, to other ways to sort of rein in corruption, rein in nopid, cronyism, whatever the case may be. so I think they need to show people very quickly that they're serious about governing. You know, and I was bringing this up with Bashir in Kentucky and I've had some pushback on it and that's fine. That's great.

but at the end of the day, you know, we don't know where Mitch is, right? honestly, I mean, you know, he he might be dead, he might be alive, but non functional. we don't know, right? August third is a deadline for you know, a special election. after that, I think the Kentucky legislature gets to make their choice for Senate, right? My view is that Bashir now is sending these letters to McConnell.

Dylan Ris (20:22.325)
Right.

Gary Trauner (20:46.348)
Right, and to McConnell's office, which demand that they do X and demand that they proof of life and all these other things. I'm like, these guys have been ignoring you for years. What do you think? Because you're now sending a demand letter that they're all of a sudden gonna change what they're doing? They're not, right? So what if you provisionally stepped up and say, We have no proof that you know McConnell is compass mentis, and therefore I'm gonna provisionally appoint someone to the Senate, right?

Dylan Ris (21:14.658)
Mm.

Gary Trauner (21:15.276)
Or I'm going provisionally start the the mechanism for a special election. and if we get proof otherwise, fine, great. You know, then then we'll let things run as they are. But we can't function this way, and the people of Kentucky shouldn't be up be functioning this way and shouldn't be held hostage this way. Taking specific steps, even if it seems a little bit outside the bounds at times, are things I think Dems need to do because they're viewed as weak. I mean, you we know that. We see that in the polls.

Dylan Ris (21:45.016)
But here's here's here's my concern, whether it's about that specifically, or to your earlier point about, you know, they should if they retake power, introduce a series of anti-corruption bills that that are great. My fear is that all of this is pure symbolism because to go back to the corruption bill, let's let's say that that they introduce it, it narrowly passes the House with their narrow majority, and then it gets filibustered in the Senate and it's dead and nothing happens.

I I just I I really worry about that on a more fundamental level. If if all they can do, not to mention that the president will remain a Republican for two more years, you know, whether that's Trump or he chokes on his final cheeseburger and it's J.D. Vance, whatever it is, you know, there there's still not a lot of power to be had until twenty twenty nine because it could this all just be symbolism, even if you replace Mitch and it's still, you know.

a Republican majority or or or, you know, filibuster majority. That's that's what I worry about.

Gary Trauner (22:49.356)
You know, I think that's totally valid, Dylan. And I think the answer to that is Democrats need to be honest with the American people, right? I think that they need to stand up and say, look, we get that the system isn't working. We get that most people in this country are struggling and and in some ways are desperate and are looking for real significant immediate direct change. We get that, right? but and the way to start this is to is to the people running the show clearly are not happy with that.

Dylan Ris (23:10.711)
Yeah.

Gary Trauner (23:18.882)
So the way to start this is change, right? Is to elect new people to come on in and see what we can do. Right. Now we know that we're limited because we have a president who's Republican president for two years, who's incredibly unpopular, but we are going to do everything in our power to protect the American people and make decisions on behalf of the American people. And we'll let you know when we think we can get things accomplished and when we can't, right? I mean, I think people underrate just.

transparency and honesty as something that most Americans want and can, you know, they can sniff it out too.

Dylan Ris (23:56.704)
Yeah. And and and and to that point, Democrats have been very weak on messaging for a long time. Part of it was just that the president was Joe Biden, who once was a okay, you know, order, but he he really wasn't toward the end. But he used to be pretty loquacious and he just couldn't make the case. I will s push back a little on I I am willing to draw a distinction between Schumer and Jeffries at this point. Hakeem Jeffries has never been speaker of the house, he's only been minority leader.

I would like to s to see what he's able to do when he actually has power. I do think he's a much clearer communicator as you is as you are saying. Schumer, on the other hand, I I I you know, I think people say, he should do more. I I actually understand to some degree procedurally, there's only so much he can do in the minority and with people like John Fetterman foisted upon him who, you know, are just gonna cause problems.

But I think that in terms of communicating, explaining, as you said, this transparency, I find him to be monstrously a creature of of of Washington who doesn't believe that transparency does him any good. He seems way past his his e expiration date in a way that I personally would give Jeffries a little more leeway to see what he could do with power. What what are your thoughts on that? Or do you group them together fully?

Gary Trauner (25:20.28)
Yeah, I think I think that's fair. you know, I think there are different views. I you know, I've met Schumer. I spent time with him. you know, he liked me because I was originally from New York for a host of other reasons. I think his expiration date has come and gone, for better or worse. You know, there's a difference between being the minority leader and being the loyal opposition. And I think, you know, Schumer and fellow senators, and there are some senators.

Dylan Ris (25:31.113)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Gary Trauner (25:48.491)
Out there who are acting as the loyal opposition. I like Chris Van Halen, I like Senator Whitehouse, you know, there's a bunch of others I could name probably that I think are pretty good. but we need, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But they need to they need to message that better, right? and it's it's no longer go along, get along. I mean, when Schumer says,

Dylan Ris (26:00.96)
Ron Wyden.

Gary Trauner (26:13.632)
makes a comment about, well, I hope that my friends across the aisle will someday come around to understanding X, Y, and Z. It's like we are so far past that point, right? That that's never going to happen. So let's reframe the way we're saying things. You know, Jeffrey, I think Jeffrey's really maybe some of it's stylistic. He's he's kind of really low key and really sort of the way he talks about things, he doesn't really show passion from my perspective.

Dylan Ris (26:19.306)
Mm-hmm.

Gary Trauner (26:43.2)
Number one. and you're right, he's never been the leader of the house, but I mean, look who the people are that are popular in this country, whether it's AOC or you know, Jasmine Crockett, right? or Raskin, you know, who I love, you know, they're they're a little bit of bomb throwers. They're a little bit of, you know, they're throwing some fire. And people want to see that. They want to see that passion and they wanna see that resistance. And and I think it's you need a little bit more. So I'm willing to give them some slack.

But he's gotta he's gotta show us he can do it.

Dylan Ris (27:16.917)
Yeah. Well, I think that I think that there's two different skills, right? There's some that's the behind the scenes wrangling and then there's communicating to the public. It doesn't necessarily have to be the same person. you know, I think in in in the case of yeah, both of them. They're they're they're they're less inadequate in terms of communicating to the public, particularly Schumer, in my opinion. but you know, the behind the scenes wrangling we don't know as much. You know, Pelosi was a lousy public speaker.

but you know, she she did wrangle her caucus in a way that w we've seen Mike Johnson cannot. We've seen you know, we saw that McCarthy before him could not, et cetera. So there, you know, there's there's something to be said for the behind the scenes skills. But you know.

Gary Trauner (28:00.979)
You know, I was gonna bring up Pelosi because I spent a fair amount of time with her as well. you know, they made me red to blue in my second race for the house. and I tell people, you know what, she was not a firebrand by any stretch of imagination, but she was more on top of her caucus and more on top of issues and events during her heyday than anyone else I met in DC. Right. And there is you you need that, right? You need that behind the scene. You need to

Dylan Ris (28:05.506)
Yeah.

Dylan Ris (28:09.453)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dylan Ris (28:24.225)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gary Trauner (28:27.916)
be able to count your caucus and get them all together and do what you need to do. These are slightly different times. It's not that you don't still need that, but I think we need some vocal, visible, strong presence that I worry, although we haven't seen the proof in the pudding yet, that Jeffries isn't quite there.

Dylan Ris (28:47.457)
Yeah. Yeah. We'll we'll we'll find out if he's if he's given a majority and and and and we we hope he will be. So if you know let's let's look at a few specific specific states that that that maybe we can talk about that would you know get get Democrats to that majority. I one that resembles yours a little bit is Alaska. Alaska mostly votes Republican.

not not to the degree that Wyoming does, but you know, w Alaska is a rural ag state, also a lot of tourism. But what what would be your hopes for Mary Paltola could you know prevail in Alaska?

Gary Trauner (29:33.761)
You know, I think in her case, she needs to tie Sullivan to the national to Trump, right? And and and sort of the national issues that that we're dealing with right now from an affordability perspective. And you know, affordability is such a bad word, but I I've tried to think of other words to come up with. But you know, just the struggle, the American the struggle of the American people.

to survive and just make it economically, right? you know, there's a whole bunch of th stuff regarding oil and gas development, energy development that, you know, she should be talking about. And I don't honestly know enough about those issues up in Alaska and how people view them in terms of Anwar and the North Slope and, you know, the Alaskan fund that they get money from every year, et cetera. But to me, if on Patola, you know, again,

Deal with the with whatever the local issues are that matter, but at the same time, you know, tie Sullivan to a complicit Republican caucus that will do anything that Donald Trump says. And that's impeding the ability of the American people to get the basics that they want and need to have a productive life, which means healthcare and affordable gas, food, et cetera. you know, and I will admit.

Dylan Ris (30:51.276)
Yeah.

Gary Trauner (30:57.92)
I'm not up on every single issue in Alaska, right? I mean, in terms of what what's super important to them. You know, they've got tribal issues as well. You know, I don't know how strong the tribal vote is up there and whether tribes do show up to vote. You know, I know that in Wyoming, we have a big reservation, the Wind River res. probably 95% of the people on that res would vote for a D if they voted, but it's been super hard to get them to turn out.

Dylan Ris (31:25.613)
Mm.

Gary Trauner (31:25.694)
so there's dynamics up there that I'm probably not fully up on.

Dylan Ris (31:29.109)
Yeah. Well you you mentioned though, you know, leaning into just Trump's corruption and and and negative perception of him. And that's, you know, in a pretty red state. I I'm curious, you know, living in a red state as you do. Now you're not it you're in Jackson Hole, it's n definitely not the reddest part of the state. But but I mean, do do you see diminished enthusiasm, di a d a diminished you know, aura around Trump compared to this time last year?

Gary Trauner (31:43.789)
Yeah.

Gary Trauner (31:58.999)
I think it's diminished, but not enough. I would say that, you know, Wyoming would still vote for Trump, would be my my view, you know, if he was up for election tomorrow. Right. and they would probably still do it in a maybe not 70 30 way, but in a sixty forty way, right? So it's it's chipping away at the margins. you know, and when I ran, to me it wasn't look, there's there's a

The hardest thing when I first ran, I had never I hadn't been a politician. I hadn't worked my way up through the system, so to speak. So a lot of it was new to me. And, you know, I would go door to door and I would get in, you know, discussions slash arguments with what we would now call MAGA folks. and I and it turns out, you know, you're never gonna get those people. So you have to make that decision to understand that when you knock on someone's door and the first thing they say is, you know, you suck, you're a Democrat and I'm MAGA, whatever.

Right. instead of wasting time, you politely say thanks, appreciate it, you know, and go to the next door, right? And find the persuadable voters. And I think for Republican, I mean for Democrats, whether it's in Alaska or Wyoming, you know, Wyoming's gonna take time. but states like Alaska or even Ohio or Iowa that were more purple states and have gone a little bit red over time, but maybe we can shift them back, I think you go for the margins.

Dylan Ris (32:56.299)
Yeah.

Gary Trauner (33:24.386)
Right. You go for those persuadable voters. and you don't you don't overemphasize Trump per se. But I think talking about corruption in general, right, and the support that Republicans have given that corruption can make progress. It's a you're you're you know we're threading a needle.

Dylan Ris (33:24.706)
Yeah.

Dylan Ris (33:40.802)
Do Well when you say MAGA in Wyoming, do do you sense that that Republicans there have radicalized in the way that, you know, they have in other states? It seems like most of what Trump talks about has little to do with Wyoming issues, you know. I mean, it's not a border state. It's not you know yeah, I'm just curious what you what are are they radicalizing it and and why when he's he basically ignores the state.

Gary Trauner (34:09.25)
Well, it's really interesting because historically speaking, Wyoming was a very much of a libertarian Republican state, right? I mean, we had a we had a an amendment on abortion. it's been 10, 15 years now, right? But it went down in flames because a pacentio was like stay out my life, right? You know, I mean it was an anti-abortion amendment, right? And it went down. but if you look at our house caucus right now in the state legislature.

Dylan Ris (34:26.967)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gary Trauner (34:38.528)
It is dominated by the Freedom Caucus, right? It we are the only state in the country where the Freedom Caucus actually is governing, right? and they've had that for the last couple of cycles. And there's been an incredible backlash against that. and August 18th is the primary here in Wyoming. And there's, I think there's a really solid chance that a fair amount of those Freedom Caucus state-led House members and Senate members.

Dylan Ris (34:40.908)
Mm-hmm.

Gary Trauner (35:07.478)
get voted out in their primaries. So you know, I think that they've shown that they don't know how to govern. and that things that they want to do in governing, they've taken the, you know, national issues, brought them into Wyoming, and the people of Wyoming are like, we don't really care about that. We care about what's happening in our state. so, you know, the fact that Trump has ign ignored Wyoming, look, we're the least populated state in the country, right?

Dylan Ris (35:09.516)
Mm-hmm.

Dylan Ris (35:23.723)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dylan Ris (35:32.653)
Mm-hmm.

Gary Trauner (35:34.05)
There's 500, 600,000 people here, not quite six hundred thousand. we probably, you know, I I I'm gonna get in trouble here. Not that we should be ignored, but we don't really have the critical mass to to be focused on as a state. Right. But

Dylan Ris (35:49.321)
Yeah. Yeah. Well I live in Los Angeles. It's one that's one sector of the city, six hundred thousand, you know. Just w yeah.

Gary Trauner (35:54.837)
Exactly. Exactly. Right. I mean, look, and and to me, there's other issues that I think we can talk about. You going back to being not an executive and looking at legislative people, we need to talk about the filibuster and we need to talk about SCOTUS reform, you know, Supreme Court reform. You know, to me, those are two if I'm a Democrat, those are non negotiable issues. And I think there are issues we need to bring up. The filibuster is not in the constitution.

It's all it is is an anti-democratic mechanism that allows the minority party to stifle what the majority wants. End of story. Right? That's not the American way. So so let's talk about fixing that, right? And same with the Supreme Court, right? You know, let's talk about it reforming the court, whether it's term limits on the court or whether it's you know more districts, right? There's 13 districts now, judicial districts. We have had changes in the number of Supreme Court justices in our past.

Let's make it, let's bring it, let's modernize it. Right. So I think there are some things you can talk about to go back to legislator versus executive that people will get. But you need to break through. And the problem is you don't know what I I don't think people realize that the East Wing was going to break through the way it did. Right. That demolition of the East Wing was going to matter to people. Like, why would it? But it seemed to rec, you know, it really resonated for a while. Right. What are those issues? Right.

Dylan Ris (37:07.405)
Mm-hmm.

Dylan Ris (37:15.191)
Perhaps 'cause there's a tangible visual. As you say, the budget for a lot of these things is is statistically zero percent in a multi trillion dollar budget, but but that that visual can make a big difference.

Gary Trauner (37:27.264)
You know, look, look, inequality, billionaires. I ask people this question all the time. this is a test, Dylan. It's your first test. Don't do the math. Just give me your quick response. Elon Musk is worth $500 billion, roughly. Okay, let's just say. If you make a million dollars a year and you get to keep it all, how many years will it take for you to have $500 billion?

Dylan Ris (37:33.387)
Mm-hmm.

Dylan Ris (37:48.309)
A million a year. it would take f what, five thousand years. Five hundred thousand years, yeah, yeah.

Gary Trauner (37:53.101)
500,000 years. Nobody should have that much money and nobody should have that much influence. And I think that's something that everyday Americans get. Right. So so let's talk about how do we how do we deal with the upper end, higher end taxation and and corporate taxation, which is the lowest that it's been, you know, in our heyday in the fifties, sixties, and seventies, we had tax rates that were 90% on the highest P earners. I'm I don't know that we need to go there.

Dylan Ris (38:03.457)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gary Trauner (38:21.772)
But thirty ish percent doesn't work.

Dylan Ris (38:24.725)
Yeah. I think a lot of people also overestimate how much they're making relative to other people and they think that taxes on high earners are gonna affect them and a lot of them wouldn't wouldn't be effective. Yeah. Well I I I think that's a long laundry list of things to to get get back with the people. It it it it

Gary Trauner (38:38.551)
I agree.

Dylan Ris (38:48.225)
I think it varies state to state, as you say. You know, there's some places, Wyoming, it's gonna take a long time. There might be other places where at least for this cycle, Texas, Ohio, Alaska, maybe there's enough to tip it for now. but but but but work to be done.

Gary Trauner (39:05.068)
You know, I think generally speaking, just to go back to the higher level, my view as someone who really has done retail campaigning in three different campaigns. And by the way, you know, I ran twice for a house, came very close both times, thought I was done, went back to real life raising a family, working in the private sector, et cetera. And then then my kids basically convinced me to run again after Trump got elected in 2018.

And I ran against Barrasso and I I got destroyed, right? Because the world had changed in that in that 10 year period in terms of polarity and you know just MAGA and the uprising of the Tea Party and all that other stuff. So you know, the question is back to the point of what should Dems be doing, I think they should be more strong, right? Because we are viewed as weak in standing up for what we believe in.

not being afraid to speak up on our issues and and back our issues, whether it's inequality and you know, whatever it takes to reduce inequality, whether it's healthcare, like you know, basic quality, affordable healthcare for everybody, whether it's the price of gas and food and corruption or whatever the case may be, you know, be strong. Don't be afraid, right?

I mean, we need to take some risks. And I think that goes back to a party is in g our party in general. Even though we're riding a little bit of a wave seemingly right now on anti-Trump wave, I think we need to take some risks to step out and show people who we are and what we're willing to do. And that's not easy and it's complex and each state's different and each district is different. but I think there are some similarities that we can we can all pull together on.

Dylan Ris (40:54.081)
Well, that's some bold advice from someone who's done it. Gary Tronner, I think that a lot of your fellow Democrats would agree it is time to go bold. It is time to to f take on the perception that we're just gonna roll over for Trump and actually show a little spine here. So we will yeah.

Gary Trauner (41:15.466)
And then lastly, yeah, lastly, Dylan, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it, but just to get back like open, honest, and transparent, right? Just just be people in my campaigns, I realized in when I got in front of people and rooms in meet and greets at their doors that if you start dissembling a little bit, you know, if you try to sort of triangulate on what you think people want to hear.

Dylan Ris (41:22.953)
Mm, yeah.

Gary Trauner (41:40.396)
They get that. They may be ignorant about issues. They may not pay a lot of attention, but they can smell out authenticity. So I think being authentic, acknowledging it's not working, acknowledging we haven't done a great job either. You know, we've done some good things. We've got some good laws passed over the years, but we we're not perfect. but saying, look, we we don't have an option here, right? The way things are going right now is not working. We get that, right? We need change.

Dylan Ris (42:06.677)
Yeah. Well, I hope that message cuts through. and between now and the election we'd love to have you back, Gary, and just you know, keep assessing as as election day ticks ever closer and then beyond.

Gary Trauner (42:21.484)
Well, thanks for having me, Dylan. Really appreciate it. It's an honor to be on and I'd love to come back and you know, have people agree, disagree, but this is the fun part.

Dylan Ris (42:23.319)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dylan Ris (42:31.584)
Yes, it is. Well, thank you again, Gary, for joining us on Personality Crisis. We'll see you next time.

Gary Trauner (42:40.089)
Thanks, Dylan.