Gotta procrastinate packing, so here’s another post.

Josh Marshall makes an interesting observation about the kinds of people who are getting very upset about the non-release of the Epstein files:

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A friend asked me recently: how is it that MAGA is so over the top about finding out which rich and powerful men may have had sex with 16 or 17 year old girls when it’s apparently fine that the leader of their movement is a longtime sex abuser and serial predator? On the one hand, this person was saying, how is one thing so beyond the pale and the others are completely fine? On another level, this person was asking, is it really so hard to believe that a guy who appears to have routinely assaulting women just over 18 did the same with those just under?

There are a few different ways to answer this. At one level, in MAGA world, Donald Trump is different. No rules apply to him. It’s good to be the king. At another level, it’s a complicated question comparing the horror of different kinds of sexual predation, or whether a person who does one is likely do do another. But there is one level of MAGA’s hyper-focus on pedophilia and sex trafficking conspiracy theories which needs to be emphasized. Because at a basic level, that obsession has nothing to do with pedophilia as a thing in itself — not as most of us might understand it.

One of the most telling aspects of this MAGA obsession is the focus on the punishment of the “elites” who are behind it. At a basic level, the victims never really take center stage. And that is the heart of it. In the MAGA world, pedophilia isn’t a crime or abuse that needs to be stopped. It is more a legitimating tool which provides a license for cleansing acts of retributive violence and revenge. This is what’s at the end of the story in every far-right/MAGA conspiracy: a wave of eliminationist, cleansing violence led by someone like Trump in which the bad guys, the liberals, the Democrats, the globalist elites, etc etc are wiped out. And that’s why whether it’s Pizzagate, QAnon or the more outlandish versions of the Jeffrey Epstein conspiracy theories, they always keep coming back to pedophilia. Because pedophilia summons a level of disgust, anger and revulsion that makes the perpetrators seem uniquely inhuman, less than human, people against whom total violence is acceptable and necessary. In other words, these conspiracy theories are systems of thought that provide sanction and legitimation for what you want to do to your enemies. They’re about the enemies. The role of pedophilia in these stories is just a means to an end, making what you want to do with your enemies okay.

Steve M makes a similar observation.

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This is a long way of saying that if we ever see the Epstein documents, Republicans will declare them fake as soon as they don't confirm the right's global pedophilia narrative. If Trump is implicated, or prominent Democrats aren't, they'll say the documents are fakes created by Obama, or by whoever controlled Joe Biden's autopen. There seems to be a bipartisan movement now to get at the truth, but it won't be bipartisan for long. Republicans need their craziest theories to be affirmed, and if that doesn't happen, they'll turn against the whole process.

And, of course, that's why the Trump Justice Department is trying to coerce testimony from Ghislaine Maxwell. The Trumpers want her to endorse the right's narrative, and when and if she does, we'll be told she's telling the truth and the documents are the real liars. And everyone on the right will say that's true.

I can’t disagree with either of these points very strenuously. The core conspiracy theory Q Anon types will either be unsatisfied with the process, or ignore Trump’s involvement in order to seize on some other villain. (Cheryl Rofer has a good overview of Q Anon if you’ve been living under a rock).

Again, though, I need to make the observation that the politics of this whole Epstein “scandal” isn’t about what core Trumpers believe. Those crazies will never vote for a Democrat. This is about chip, chip, chip on marginal Trump voters’ attitudes towards him, and also de-motivating Trumpers. He lied to them. He throws up smokescreens instead of doing what he said he would do in a way that’s almost comical.

At the moment, even people who don’t usually care about conspiracies think that the smoke around Epstein indicates a fire. Ghislane Maxwell, serving a 20-year sentence, is an unreliable witness because she’ll say anything to get out of prison, and she’ll be irrevocably tainted after Todd Blanche offers immunity for lies. The Epstein file itself is also tainted after Trump had thousands of FBI agents on 24-hour shifts run through it to find (and presumably redact) his name. Releasing the “file” isn’t going to do shit. He’s damned if he does, and damned if he doesn’t, and that’s a great place to have your opponent.

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Kay W.1 year ago

Whats gotten kind of lost in this is … there WAS a global cabal of pedophiles raping children - it just wasn’t run by Obama and Hillary Clinton. It was run by a NYC real estate heir and an Ohio retailer. The truth is equally as horrifying as the conspiracy theory.

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Gloria DryGarden 1 year ago

Interesting points. This is pretty hard on the victims, and perhaps on others who’ve experienced sexual assault from people way more powerful than them. I’m reading that the cover up, trump knowing and lying about it, is troubling to more officials. Surely it’s not news, his lying, and cover ups. Apparently it’s criminal now. Strange how they want to use it against democrats, but sexual abuse comes from all walks of life. Perps can be Republican, Democrat, rich, poor, any religion. We discuss this in the rooms where survivors meet. Is this not a known thing? You can’t pin rape and sexual violence against minors on any one group. Like were all those protected catholic priests and their handler bishops all democrats? Come on. So, I’m glad their making a thing of it, trying to aim it at targets, is backfiring .

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TBone Dinosaur1 year ago

I listened to the clip from the Howard Stern show recently. I didn't see LO'D tear into it.

"When [Robin] Quivers asks for his sexual “age limit,” Trump started out by saying he doesn’t have one — but then said he would definitely draw a line at “12-year-olds” and referenced a then-recent sex scandal."

https://www.mediaite.com/media/news/msnbcs-lawrence-odonnell-disgusted-by-trumps-unearthed-12-year-olds-remark/

Jane Doe was 13 y.o. when she was raped. I hope this hangs around his neck like a tie made of festering goiters for the rest of his days.

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Scott H1 year ago

Here's a crazy thought:

Perhaps Maxwell wants to stay in prison...for her own personal safety.

There's a crapton of victims and families of victims of her actions who, might be somebody who owns one (or more) of the 400-500 million firearms in 'Murka.

And who might already feel that not enough "justice" has been served.

And who might not react in a cool, rational manner if she walks from a 20-year prison sentence no matter if she's telling the truth or lying lack a sack of shit.

Perhaps she's looking at her current residence, a low-security Federal prison for women in Tallahassee. Plenty of security there between her and somebody who would like to send her to meet Jeffrey.

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TBone Dinosaur1 year ago

Stranger things have happened!

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James Powell1 year ago

No scandal will harm or diminish Trump or the Republicans with their voters. This Epstein Episode reminds me of the things that were sure to implode the Bush/Cheney Junta back in the early days of political blogs. Their voters are united & energized by their hatred of the rest of us. And the majority of whites will always vote for the party of white supremacy.

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Sepideh M1 year ago

Surely "peak wingnut" will come. (It never came.)