I’d missed this excellent Oliver Willis post about how the Democratic Party needs to stop relying on white, male, out-of-touch Clinton or Obama advisors whose best days are long behind them:

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We can argue the relative merits of the Clinton and Obama presidencies (as well as Biden’s term, which in ways was Obama 3) but what is clear is that they are the past. The way politics operates now is significantly different from 2008, let alone 1992 – but Democrats keep listening to the people who coached during the leather helmet era of American politics.

And who are we really listening to here? Neither Bill Clinton nor Barack Obama were completely inept bumpkin politicians who couldn’t get elected without their Svengali political teams. In fact, both men are among the most naturally talented political minds in American history and two of this country’s best orators. Operating like Axelrod or Carville or their extended political orbit had some secret sauce and now has the winning playbook for future victories makes as much sense as turning to Tom Brady’s water boy for advice on winning the Super Bowl.

The whole piece is worth your time.

One of the tools of opposition in a two-party democracy is the ruling power’s fear that what they’re doing to the other party will be visited upon them after the next election. Democrats are not leveraging this fear, and it’s in part because we’ve gotten to a place where we’re expected to clean up and shut up about it when we get into power. We’re the “adults in the room.” “When they go low, we go high.”

If the party that listens to Carville and Axelrod gets back into office in 2028, nothing will change. Republicans will use the same tools that they always have to make sure nothing good happens when Democrats are around. Then the politically unengaged voters will vote, once again, for the other guy.

Aimee Mann knows what I’m talking about. Open thread.

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Scott H1 year ago

Biden was Obama 3 is easily one of the more stupider pundit takes on the Biden presidency written.

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mister mixAuthor1 year ago

I think Willis is pretty good, but that sentence is something that writers should avoid. He qualified it: "which in ways was Obama 3" but without knowing what ways he means it, it's open to interpretation.

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John S.1 year ago

There seems to be some avid debate going below regarding certain people and whether they belong in the Democratic Party.

My take is that it doesn’t matter if the people knocking on doors or speaking on TV are white, brown, educated, illiterate or otherwise. It’s not the people that are the problem, it’s what they are saying and doing which is problematic.

Identity politics of any kind is useless and toxic to Democrats. The only master that serves are the Republicans and their MAGA cult.

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Sepideh M1 year ago

With the HIllary Clinton campaign, some older folks wanted to go register college students, and the office told them not to and that they had it taken care of. They were going to send younger folks to register college students.

It was demoralizing for the volunteers because the office was a bunch of out of state workers telling the locals what to do. But the strategy of finding attractive college students to register other students is probably dead on.

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John S.1 year ago

I’d rather have a 60 year old fighter show up to my door with fire in their belly than an attractive 20 year old just phoning it in without any conviction. Maybe that’s just me.

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John S.1 year ago

Well it’s Sunday, so time for Democrats go on the news shows to complain about MAGA. This week, they almost made a concerted effort out of it:

Sen. Warnock was on Meet the Press and criticized the “One Big Beautiful Bill Act” as “Trump’s big, ugly bill.”

Sen. Murphy was on State of the Union and accused the Trump administration of fiscal gaslighting Americans. Rep. Jeffries was also on and predicted the bill will fail in the Senate (which means it will now definitely pass).

Rep. Krishnamoor was on Face the Nation to criticize Trump’s plan to revoke visas for Chinese students. Not sure who really cares about this very specific issue amongst everything else that is going on.

Rep. Auchincloss was on Fox News Sunday to criticize the GOP budget plan and claimed Trump is more focused on personal branding than policy.

Way to go, Democrats.

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Sepideh M1 year ago

Anyone involved in financial viability of their university that has entire graduate departments full of Chinese students will care about the visa issues. I think specific graduate degrees in chemistry and chemical engineering had a difficult time getting their people when I was a student many years ago. Also, someone had defaced some of the desks in MIT to say CIT (Chinese Institute of Technology.)

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John S.1 year ago

I get all that. But in the pantheon of malfeasances that is the Trump administration, was this really worth having an elected representative spend precious time discussing?

If anything, his comments will end up as sound bites on Fox News as proof of how their Democrats are in bed with communists.

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Sepideh M1 year ago

I think we need to care a little less about Fox News and not be on the defensive all the time against their bullshit.

Here is a great example of "What to do when a reporter attacks Democrats for not being conservative enough."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6pP2aMZEFc

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John S.1 year ago

I agree when there’s an upside. I don’t really see much upside to going to the mat for Chinese students. We have too many other things to fight for.

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henry sholar1 year ago

Joni Mitchell has the 'musical coda' for me: "The circle game" (circa 1968). Because this is where i came in:

The line, it is drawn, the curse, it is cast The slow one now will later be fast As the present now will later be past The order is rapidly fadin' And the first one now will later be last For the times, they are a-changin'

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Kay W.1 year ago

I’ve been hearing a lot of more subtle clues that some Democrats get that it’s an entirely new game. Mayor Pete is something of a bellweather and he’s acknowledging that we can’t go back to “the status quo”.

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Tam R1 year ago

The game is now Calvin ball. Democrats are the kids who keep saying you can’t do that and hounding on rules that no longer exist. I’ve also got my eye on Beto. Of course he wasn’t going to get elected to state wide office in Texas. Getting elected to statewide office doesn’t matter anymore. The next president is going to be a tall, white, cis, hetero, charismatic male who has a traditional family and who can make an impassioned case for caring about others.Spanish speaking voters will be incredibly disillusioned with Republicans. If the candidate speaks Spanish - all the better. I listened to the pod bros discuss the 2024 final numbers. Not pretty at all. One Obama person I will always listen to is Dan Pfeiffer. He’s smart but more importantly he came up by working on campaigns. Vote Save recruits and manages tens of thousands of volunteers every election. They all canvass and make calls. I only listen to people who do dials and doors. Everyone else is just promoting their biases.

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Busted Knee1 year ago

I don't think dials and doors helps.

In the last election my Latino in laws who are all women went Trump. Why? Well the door knockers were white women who only spoke about women's issues and other stuff. They not only voted Trump they came off convinced feminism was only for white women, liberals didn't respect their religion, and did not give one flying fuck about their day to day problems. They also got others to vote for Trump after. So take a bow white women educated professionals that's on you.

This keeps happening. It's not our politicians or policies that kill us, they don't help, it's that your average educated white liberal with a degree creates conservatives each time they open their mouth.

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green goblin1 year ago

I really wish we could stop this stuff. White women with college degrees do not have to shut up to get dems elected.

Those who voted for Trump are responsible for their vote. To say they were forced to vote for the fascist because a white educated woman knocked on their door is ridiculous.

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Busted Knee1 year ago

White women voted for Trump, white women with degrees drive out women from our party and set the gold standard for bad actors. This was made clear with PUMA. They have to go.

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green goblin1 year ago

Men voted for Trump. They are driving men out of our party and set the gold standard for bad actors. They made it clear with Joe Rogan. They have to go.

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Sepideh M1 year ago

White women with college degrees are the workhorses of the Democratic Party. They will go do thankless things like knocking doors, and they don't need to be YouTube bro-fluencers to do that stuff. Some times with this stuff, we have vague scripts about issues, and sometimes we have tight and well-researched ones.

In this case, I would imagine that we need organizations like Mi Familia Vota out doing the voter registration. UnidosUS is also another Latino voter registration org.

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Busted Knee1 year ago

Then we are lost and pack it up and go fucking home. Bring on fascism.

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Busted Knee1 year ago

Pete is a master class in just not talking about all the social issues (while not giving them up take a clue) and focusing on shit people care about. That's really the issue. But your average Democrat is part of the managerial class who will not shut up about social issues and if you dare mention other issues or reaching out to people will scream "you are a racist" at the top of their lungs and then tell you that asking them to pay one cent of their income to help others empowers Nazis.

Pete's doing good work. But till we find a way to gag, muzzle, throw in a burlap sack, and hurl off a clip that class of degreed shits we have no chance long term. Only we in the party can take them out. That's the only effort that matters.

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Tam R1 year ago

But we need to win and we do really well with college educated (I include autodidacts), suburban voters. We are losing badly with those who are not college educated and men. We are losing with white men and have lost ground with Latino men and Black men. We can’t win unless we keep our current voters and expand. If I had the answer to how I’d be earning the big bucks.

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Busted Knee1 year ago

You are losing ground because of those educated subs. They are the toxin. We will shrink till they are dealt with. They no longer don't a vote they have to be silenced forever.

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green goblin1 year ago

Mayor Pete is not educated? Or is it just educated women that are hurting the party?

Maybe women shouldn't be allowed to vote. Or get an education. Or go out and talk to people. Misogyny the winning message for Dems!

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mister mixAuthor1 year ago

Eh, I don't know. I mean, yeah, there's a small group of people who want to emphasize social issues, and they're white and well-off. I don't know many like that, and I'm a white-appearing guy who is part of the managerial class for a while. The rest of us just want to win without throwing trans, gay, black and latino voters under the bus, since they're part of our coalition.

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green goblin1 year ago

Maybe they emphasize social issues because it is important to them. Or maybe Trans military personnel should just shut up and resign already. Families of women who die because of abortion bans should just shut up and visit the grave. People who lose health care should just shut up and die. Otherwise some poor innocent voter will be forced to vote for the demented, convicted felon fascist.

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Sepideh M1 year ago

You are really ax-grindy against upper middle class folks, the college educated, and women. Repeatedly. Over and over. In all the threads.

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John S.1 year ago

Yes, and it’s a very interesting assortment of grievances to be combined in a single package.

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TBone Dinosaur1 year ago

I have been tempted to attend the argument but it's a waste of time. Same shit, different day.