We made it to mainland Mexico and we’re currently in a hotel in Guadalajara. One of the weird things about mainland Mexico is the toll roads. The ferry we took from La Paz, Baja California Sur landed in Mazatlan, which is in Sinaloa, a state that’s generally considered not the safest. So we high-tailed it south to Tepic, Nayarit, then Tequila, Jalisco, then Guadalajara, Jalisco. All of that was on toll roads, which are nice by Mexican standards, well patrolled, and very expensive. The stretch from Mazatlan to Tepic, Nayarit, is 170 miles and the toll was 1,010 Mexican Pesos, which is $56.

In addition to being expensive, the toll amounts are weird. They’re not 200 or 300 pesos, they’re 204 or 309 or some other odd number. I can’t imagine how the toll authority keeps the booths stocked with change. As in the US, there’s also electronic tolling, if you have a transponder.

So, overall, a giant pain in the ass. As far as I’m concerned, it’s stupid. I think roads should be financed with taxes, and I also think that public transit should be free. Taxes exist to provide common goods. If you want to have heavy trucks, for example, “pay their share“ because they tend to destroy roads, gas taxes can take care of that. There’s no need to spin up an entire tolling infrastructure just to have a road or a bridge.

But toll roads are exactly what an ideal libertarian world would have, in spades. The dumb libertarian asks “Why should I pay for a road that I might not use?” Similarly, why should they pay for water that they might not drink? Mexico also has that covered, because the water infrastructure sucks, so even in some cities residents have water cisterns that are filled from water trucks, and residents buy purified water from an “agua purificada” which uses reverse osmosis to purify the generally undrinkable water.

The really stupid part of the whole libertarian enterprise is that their desire not to pay for anything they might not use leads to some of the most wasteful and hidebound bureaucracy imaginable. Every toll we paid on the Mexican toll roads was accompanied by an itemized receipt detailing which government entity received their portion of the toll. In New York State, the Thruway, a toll road, recently remodeled their rest stops to make them far less appealing than the older stops (smaller and more cramped), and the Thruway Authority decided to contract with Chick-fil-A to be one of restaurants in the rest stop, even though that restaurant is famously closed on Sundays.

I guess the long and short of it is that there’s very little that’s practical about libertarianism, though I think we all knew that already.

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Kay W.11 months ago

Pretty! It looks warm 🙂 For an example of conservative/libertarian governance, I give you the portion of I- 80 that goes thru Indiana. Mitch Daniels sold it to a Spanish company a decade ago and it is shit. The highway is falling apart, the toll transponders that work in other states don’t work there and they fired all the attendants so cars stack up for miles. It’s been like this for years. If I were President I would order that section closed until Indiana spends some money on maintenance. There should be a minimum level of basic services to retain statehood in the US.

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Marmot Pimpernel 11 months ago

Are the police in some towns quasi-private, like the stereotype of old? (I mean bribe-able or hire-able.)

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Marmot Pimpernel 11 months ago

This sort of neo-feudalism is the bottom of the fucking libertarian barrel.

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mister mixAuthor11 months ago

AMLO combined all of the police other than municipal into the Guardia Nacional, which seems pretty un bribeable. Then robe stories we hear are all about the municipal police. In areas where there was recent violence the Navy and Army patrol with the municipal police and they're considered very trustworthy. We saw that in Loreto Baja California Sur where there had been a cartel fight over drugs recently.

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Marmot Pimpernel 11 months ago

Wow. I did not know that, despite growing up on the border.

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C P11 months ago

As I recall, at least one of the cartels was started by Mexican Army special ops troops that went rogue. Was that just an exception that proved the rule, or have they just worked a lot to clean up the military since then? (I do think it was a while ago, like some time in the 2000s).

Also, I assume the reason the municipal police wasn't folded into the Guardia Nacional is just that most of them are so compromised that bringing them into a larger structure would just mean ruining that structure from the inside?

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Marmot Pimpernel 11 months ago

Los Zetas. I think they were even an anti-drug force?

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C P11 months ago

In the words of John Cole, West Virginia is filled with drivers who keep paying a couple thousand a year in car repairs just to avoid paying a couple hundred a year in taxes.

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r po11 months ago

What kind of traffic did you see on the toll road? Commercial truck traffic or autobuses? All of these roads predate Morena so I wonder if there will be some sort of change, eventually, in the road funding system. $56 is a lot of meals for the median Mexicano.

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mister mixAuthor11 months ago

It was mostly trucks and buses but also some auto traffic. Mainly nice cars.

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Scott H11 months ago

15 years ago, JG posed this question:

Are libertarians just naturally the dumbest fucking people on the planet?

https://balloon-juice.com/2010/10/15/no-tunku/

The comments are chock full of quotable quotes. I've summarized some in a paragraph:

"Not all dumb people are Libertarians, but all Libertarians are dumb people.” And they’re that most pernicious type of dumb person, the one who’s convinced that they’re smart. They’re True Believers in the Church of IGMFY, and, like all true believers, they have to ignore all reality that can’t fit into their warped and myopic worldview.

The sad thing is, so much of libertarian "thought" has infected and taken hold in our political discourse as something worth doing.

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C P11 months ago

I think this was juuuust before I first discovered Balloon Juice.

The guy who says "there's no such thing as a libertarian, they're just Republicans who aren't into Jesus in a big way" makes a pretty good point, IMO. The vast majority of "libertarians" I've met are just putting a new shine on utterly conventional conservative or, much more rarely, liberal politics. The issues that they're Anti-Government on are largely shared by their whole side of the political spectrum already, and every other issue, they either aren't Anti-Government on or just don't care.

Basically, every examination of their politics goes like this:

"Well, I'm a libertarian because I strongly believe that the government should stay out of X, Y, and Z!" "But you don't care if they involve themselves in A, B, and C?" "Well, X, Y, and Z are really important!" "Okay but then you're not a libertarian. You're just a regular conservative/liberal."

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Scott H11 months ago

"Dumb libertarian" is redundant.

They reject altruism and a community response as “a chump’s game”, even though paying it forward is surprisingly a smart thing to do, but of course there’s no immediate gratification, so we can’t have that, now can we?

This is the fundamental part of Community some people don’t get.

Some people = most conservatives and every libertarian I’ve ever met.

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Sepideh M11 months ago

The way you spent this whole post dunking on the Jersey turnpike...

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mister mixAuthor11 months ago

Jersey turnpike is worse, more toll booths, but cheaper.